Halls Ownership Update

UPDATE 2020 - Insurance still not clarified (Min 334.7.10) What does it cover? Does it include the halls?

KEY POINTS: 

• Halls Protocol Agreement 2010, as received from BPC, Signed by Penny Skelley (BPC Chairman), Len Chamberlain (Halls Chairman) and witnessed by Bruce Poole (BPC Clerk)
• 1. The "... Parish Hall itself and the skittle alley was to be held "on trust" for the benefit of the inhabitants of the Parish of Bleadon and its immediate vicinity"
• 5. "The Agreement should be read in conjunction with the Trust Deed"
  • No Trust Deed has been publicly accessible?
• 6(iii) "The responsibility for insuring the buildings .... rests with the council"
  • The contents insurance with the Halls Management Committee (BVN 85)
• 6(x) "The [Halls Management] Committee shall hold regular meetings open to the public at least once in three months ..."
  • Where are these announced? Where are the minutes published?
• "That the Parish Council is the Custodian Trustee and as such should record the asset on the Parish Council Asset register That the value should be listed as Nil value.That the Coronation Hall Management Committee is the Managing Trustee" (July 2008 Min 205.10.5)

UPDATE Jan 2019: Ownership and Asset Register issues continue - F&P (Min 55.6) and Full Council Min 318.13. Insurance queries (Min 322.20 & 322.21)

Bleadon Village News Extracts

BVN76 1995 Halls Committee applied for Charity status, and this was duly granted by the Charities Commission

BVN80 "The Coronation Hall is a registered Charity, with the Committee as Management Trustees, and operates under the rules and objects of our 1938 trust deed."

BVN81 "The issue of Custodian Trustee and the associated matter of whose name should appear on the Hall insurance policy have both been resolved. By rescinding its earlier Resolution, the Parish Council accepted that the asset value of the Hall Buildings should not be included in the accounts of the Hall Committee. One matter remains to be addressed and that is to redraft the Governing Document (the Trust Deed of 14 January 1938) to remove the ambiguities contain in that document. This matter is being discussed with the Charity Commission."

BVN85 "Contrary to their previous advice, our insurers (Aon Limited) have confirmed that the Hall insurance policy should be divided into two – the buildings element being written in the name of the Parish Council as legal owners of the property and the contents and other matters being in the name of the Hall Management Committee. Legal advice given by Hall, Ward and Fox is that the Governing Document (the Trust Deed dated 14 January 1938) is ambiguous. Their recommendation was to draft a Protocol to clarify the ambiguities and bring the Governing Document up to date. This has now been completed and the Protocol was signed by Penny Skelley (on behalf of the Parish Council) and Len Chamberlain (on behalf of the Hall Management Committee) at the Annual Parish Meeting on 12 April."

BVN86 "It also mentioned the signing of a new Protocol document, to clarify the ambiguous wording on our 1938 trust deed, which to my knowledge has been the cause of several serious and conflicting interpretations in past years. So we are confident that future hall committees will have the benefit of the action we have taken now and we have minuted our appreciation of the time and effort put into this over the past year by Clive."

BVN89 "Although the buildings are held in trust by the Parish Council on behalf of us all, the daily management and running of the facility is entrusted to the Hall Management Committee, and is separate from the Parish Council itself."

BVN108 "The parish council acts as the Custodial Trustee in the ownership of the Coronation and Jubilee Hatls, the village youth ctub tand and the children's ptayground."

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In Nov 2016 BPC turned its attention to the Halls Committee regarding the ownership of the village halls and land, and associated responsibilities; with talk about taking legal advice at the public's expense (Nov 2016 Min 289.9) BOB informed BPC that there was a BPC/Hall Committee Agreement-Protocol and requested a copy.

From our understanding:

• "The legal ownership of the Hall is vested in the Council as Trustees for the use and benefit of the Beneficiaries and it is therefore an asset of the Council."
• the Halls Committee have "control and management of the property"

We believe Dec 2016 Min 290.13 is misleading i.e. it does not indicate that BPC has legal ownership IN TRUST to be logged on the BPC asset register as an asset of nil value as indicated in previous BPC minutes.  The deeds state "... for the physical and mental recreation for the inhabitants of the Parish of Bleadon"; BOB last informed councillors of this in May 2016. 

We, and others, feel that a correct record is important because the halls and land are not BPC's assets to do with as they wish, they belong to the parishioners of Bleadon. Also, should BPC 'fold' in the future these assets should not then pass to any other government authority.

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CORRESPONDENCE WITH BPC RE: HALLS OWNERSHIP & RESPONSIBILITIES

From: Bleadon BOB Community Website <bleadon@live.co.uk>

Sent: 18 November 2016 18:10

To: Bleadon Parish Council Clerk

Cc: Cllr Chinn; Cllr Clarke; Cllr Gutsell; [Hall Rep]; [Hall Rep/Member of public]

Subject: November Minutes - Halls Ownership, Building Insurance, VAT

Dear Tony,

Thanks for the minutes (now on BOB) , but having read the minutes I'm confused what the problem is here between BPC/Halls, and as Jo was on the Halls Committee  at the time she has compiled the reply below based on her knowledge and research on the matter - Chris.

I'm aware of a lengthy legal process in 2006-10  on the issue of ownership and interpretation of the Coronation Hall Trust Deed as I was on the Halls Committee during 2007-09.  From public documents and minutes I understand that in 2008 BPC resolved to register its assets with HMLR including 'Coronation Hall/Jubilee Hall/Childrens Play Area/YouthClub/Car Park' (hopefully including all trust information where necessary).BPC therefore own the halls (as publicly stated in 2010 and confirmed by you via HMLR). They are owned with BPC as Custodian Trustee in relation to a  1938 Trust Deed for '..the physical and mental recreation of the inhabitants of the Parish of Bleadon'. The Halls Management Committee run the halls as Management Trustees, also in relation to the Trust Deed.  In 2010 the public was informed that this issue was concluded with an agreement signed between the Chair of BPC (Penny Skelley) and the Chair of Hall Committee (Len Chamberlain) i.e. Protocol 205. It was stated that this document was 'to clarify the ambiguities and bring the Governing Document, the Trust Deed of 1938, up to date'. So why these ownership, insurance, etc. issues have been raised again only six years later I'm at a loss to understand, especially considering the time and money spent on legal advice in the past, and suggested again now. Let's hope this current process will clarify the situation once and for all.

Please can you send BOB a copy of BPC/Halls Committee agreement i.e. The Protocol regarding the interpretation of the Coronation Hall Trust Deed dated 14 January 1938 (Protocol 205), signed and concluded at the Annual Parish Meeting 2010?

I'm also a bit confused by the insurance and VAT statements.

I believe that it was the halls ownership and insurance issue, as originated in 2006, that eventually caused Protocol 205 to be written in 2010 to clarify the situation, we seem to be repeating that process again, some info:

• October 2007: The clerk advised the meeting of the responses he had received from both the NALC and SLCC. As a result he confirmed that he would be accepting their advice by formally amending the entry on the Parish Council Asset list with regards to the Insurance Value of the Coronation Hall. In the future the value would be listed but in brackets with the following explanation – Held in trust by Bleadon Parish Council as custodial trustees.
• July 2008: Resolved to receive Custodian & Management Trustees Report and to accept the Clerk’s following recommendations: That the Parish Council is the Custodian Trustee and as such should record the asset on the Parish Council Asset register That the value should be listed as Nil value That the Coronation Hall Management Committee is the Managing Trustee That the Parish Council and the Coronation Hall Management Committee mutually seek direction from AON the Hall Insurers as to whose name should appear on the policy and who are legally are responsible for paying the Annual Insurance Premium
• Bleadon Village News - 85 - Summer 2010: Contrary to their previous advice, our insurers (Aon Limited) have confirmed that the Hall insurance policy should be divided into two – the buildings element being written in the name of the Parish Council as legal owners of the property and the contents and other matters being in the name of the Hall Management Committee. Legal advice given by Hall, Ward and Fox is that the Governing Document (the Trust Deed dated 14 January 1938) is ambiguous. Their recommendation was to draft a Protocol to clarify the ambiguities and bring the Governing Document up to date. This has now been completed and the Protocol was signed by Penny Skelley (on behalf of the Parish Council) and Len Chamberlain (on behalf of the Hall Management Committee) at the Annual Parish Meeting on 12 April. Cllr Clive Morris 
• BVN 86 - Autumn 2010: Bleadon Coronation Hall In the last issue of the Village News, our report was given at the Annual Parish meeting by our Hall Representative and Treasurer Cllr Clive Morris. It was a comprehensive report, on finance, improvements and general happenings in both halls. It also mentioned the signing of a new Protocol document, to clarify the ambiguous wording on our 1938 trust deed, which to my knowledge has been the cause of several serious and conflicting interpretations in past years. So we are confident that future hall committees will have the benefit of the action we have taken now and we have minuted our appreciation of the time and effort put into this over the past year by Clive. Len Chamberlain - Chairman

VAT: 

• May 2016 : The hall funds will be used to carry out the refurbishment work, but the Parish Council have agreed to donate up to £20,000 to make up any shortfall. The internal auditor has advised that if the work is commissioned in the name of the Parish Council, and they receive the invoices then the VAT can be reclaimed.
• June 2016: 284.12 To discuss the Village Hall rebuilding works. A working group has been set up, and met a week ago. The auditor Terry Lewis has advised that if invoices for all the work are made payable to the Parish Council then the VAT can be reclaimed. 

I feel public clarification is definitely required with regards to BPC's ownership of all its assets (including trusts) and its meaning for the people of Bleadon; its relationship with other groups e.g. the Halls Committee, Youth Club, etc.; any related operational and financial management responsibilities; and associated trustee and public scrutiny. I believe there is a difference between 'owning' an asset and 'owning it in trust' and I feel that this must be clearly communicated to residents. It seems that an open and transparent approach to access to information on these issues is required for all parties, including the public, otherwise the public per‎ception may be that the PC/Halls could perhaps otherwise use 'its' asset without recourse to Bleadon and potentially involve more unnecessary costs now and in the future.

As you are aware this is the recommended practice under the FOI Act by the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) Model Publication Scheme to help prevent these types of legal, financial and time consuming issues recurring for all interested parties. We have previously suggested and requested this practice numerous times  with BPC resolving to adopt the ICO Model Publication Scheme in December 2008 and again in March 2016 but this information is still missing from the website.

When this matter is finally concluded could you please keep BOB (and Bleadon public) informed by publishing all related documents alongside all BPC public documents, policies, protocols, newsletters, etc. on the BPC website for future reference as per the ICO Model Publication Scheme? 

Kind regards,

Jo

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From: Tony Jay <parishclerk@bleadonparishcouncil.gov.uk>

Hi everyone,